Greetings and salutations. My name is Johnny Nato. Thank you for joining us here on Embrace your Storm. We’ve got an awesome episode for you, as always. Before we get to that, though, wow. Okay, before we get to that, don’t forget to create an account on the website embracestormcom. You can send your emails to hello at EmbraceYourStormcom, looking forward to hearing your comments, criticisms and critiques. And so today, we’ve got an awesome episode for you. Today, we’re speaking with Rock, and he is the owner of Fiber Tone Guitars, where he makes carbon fiber guitars. So, rock, thanks for coming on today.
0:01:05 – Speaker 2
Thank you for inviting me, jonathan hey, it’s my pleasure.
0:01:08 – Speaker 1
Thanks for coming on. Uh, I’m looking forward to uh to this discussion. Um, but before we get too much into like, what brought you to uh to playing carbon or to creating carbon fiber guitars? Um, do you actually like play guitar? Do you play bass? Do you play any instruments? Like what were you doing that before? Uh, you know, before you started like play guitar, do you play bass? Do you play any instruments? Like what were you doing that before you started? Like building?
0:01:31 – Speaker 2
guitars. So I come from a family where most of my relatives are singers, but there are a couple of of guitarists also, and my father played the guitar. And it wasn’t until I turned 15 that I decided that maybe, with the guitar in my hand, it would be easier to get a girlfriend. So that’s how, that’s what got me started.
0:02:07 – Speaker 1
You know what’s really funny, rock? That the last interview I did was with a gentleman and he actually said kind of the same thing. I asked him what made you want to start playing guitar? And he said well, in high school there was this guy that was really shy and quiet and one day he was playing guitar and all these girls were around him and he was like I need to start playing guitar. So so how did that work out for you, rock, in high school, did you? Did you, uh, gather all the ladies around you?
0:02:44 – Speaker 2
well, uh, I guess I I was swapping them as fast as I was swapping my guitars. I wasn’t pleased with them.
0:02:57 – Speaker 1
What kind of music were you playing? What kind of bands were you listening to?
0:03:03 – Speaker 2
I’ve always been a fan of the 50s, 60s, 70s, nice okay 80s okay, yeah so I like all this um and I also like the dance. So, uh, nice, yeah, I, uh, I like um swing music and uh, I like swing music.
0:03:26 – Speaker 1
So that’s kind of like 30s and 40s music right, the swing stuff right.
0:03:30 – Speaker 2
Well, it can be also the 60s, like rockabilly stuff. Okay, you can dance not just Lindy Hop, but Boogie, woogie or Bilboa and stuff like that. So yeah, not just 30s and 40s.
0:03:47 – Speaker 1
I don’t like 30s and 40s as much as later periods that’s more of kind of big band swing kind of stuff, I guess, right like the 30s and 40s. Yeah, yeah.
0:03:57 – Speaker 2
I’m not much of a fan of that music, maybe mostly because, uh, it wasn’t recorded as well what so kind of.
0:04:08 – Speaker 1
Back to your guitar. What was the first guitar that you had like? Do you remember that guitar? Do you still have it?
0:04:13 – Speaker 2
so uh my first guitar? Yeah, I do have my first guitar, that’s cool because the first guitar I I used was my father’s guitar, which was built in our former country.
0:04:30 – Speaker 1
Yugoslavia? Oh no, kidding.
0:04:32 – Speaker 2
So I was just two years old when we got our independence.
0:04:46 – Speaker 1
So yeah, Do you remember that much?
0:04:47 – Speaker 2
that at all actually I, uh, I remember, uh, it’s actually my first memory we had, like, uh, yugo car maybe you heard of it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I have, yeah, so we had that and uh, I locked myself inside the car and, like army was like I don’t know half a kilometer away.
0:05:15 – Speaker 1
Oh my goodness, are you kidding?
0:05:16 – Speaker 2
me. Yeah, I locked myself in the car and I started honking and my my mom couldn’t get me out. And then the army came and they surrounded our home and oh my goodness my mom would be throwing that under my nose for the rest of my life because that, because that’s what that, because they they were coming to bring your independence?
0:05:42 – Speaker 1
is that why the army was there like that?
0:05:44 – Speaker 2
well, Well, actually I don’t know which army was there. Yeah, I guess everyone was on their toes, you know, anxious and so on. So it was a 10-day war, so it wasn’t really serious. So I mean, there was tension, but not a lot of shooting yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that’s crazy.
0:06:15 – Speaker 1
So so like if you, if you started playing guitar when you’re 15 and you had your, your dad’s guitar um, like I’m assuming you’re you know kind of in and out of bands or whatever, so like, what made you decide and how old were you to be?
0:06:29 – Speaker 2
like, hey, instead of playing guitarist, I think I kind of want to make one like what most of that money would go for guitars. Until it got to a point where I was I had neck heavy guitars or the neck wasn’t didn’t feel right and stuff like that that, yeah, bothered me and it brought me to a point where I said, I, I had it, I’m just gonna make guitar myself.
And my initial plan wasn’t to start the guitar business. It was like I’m gonna make myself a guitar. And I decided to start making this guitar for myself when I was 18, so three years after I started playing, and it took me seven years to make the tools which allowed for this guitar to be made. So I still have that guitar. That’s cool. And uh, yeah, it’s. I’m not selling it, I’m keeping it. Um, and yeah, once I uh it was made, people told me like, wow, that’s a great instrument, I love to have one too. And that was 10 years ago. So what made what?
0:08:31 – Speaker 1
made what made you like want to even approach using carbon fiber as the material? Because, I mean, you know, like you said, you’ve only been playing guitar for three years and you already made the decision, like you know what, instead of you know kind of buying these other guitars and you know kind of fixing them up or making them the way I want they’re always being something maybe I don’t like about it. Why don’t I just start from scratch? So, like never mind building a guitar from scratch, you know like with regular material alone, that’s. You know that’s a task all onto its own. But then, like like you really sort of up the ante by being like no, let’s just make the whole guitar out of carbon fiber. Like how do you even go about like starting to even do something like that?
0:09:18 – Speaker 2
so, yeah, the the biggest concern I had with was the neck, because I wanted to have a slim neck that could withstand the tension of 12 gauge strings. And, yeah, I started researching materials and I was looking for a wood that best works against the forces of the strings when they’re in tune. And then I came across I was also thinking about using deep profiles of aluminum and so on. So, uh, yeah, I, uh, I came across carbon fiber, and that’s so I decided to make the neck first.
Well, and then I would take this neck to a local luthier and he would make the body for my guitar oh that’s cool, that would be it, but uh, yeah, once I I learned how to make the neck, uh, and how to make the, the model, and then the mold, and then the neck. I learned so much that I decided to make the whole guitar out of carbon fiber.
0:10:52 – Speaker 1
So that’s how I got started when you would bring the neck to the the other guitar luthiers, were they like whoa, this is cool, like, like. Were they impressed with seeing you, the neck that you made.
0:11:04 – Speaker 2
No, that didn’t even happen, Because often in life, as with other things I would say, is that you have the initial plan and then the road takes you maybe completely other places.
0:11:22 – Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
0:11:23 – Speaker 2
Because I never thought of. I never thought that making myself a guitar would lead me to having a guitar making business.
0:11:41 – Speaker 1
So, yeah, it’s actually kind of funny because, like you, literally, like a lot of people are, there’s that like the saying of, about inventing something. Like you scratch your own itch, you know, and and like that’s what you’re doing, like you’re it’s kind of you know, it’s funny. Your intention doing this wasn’t hey, I’m gonna start this guitar manufacturing company or whatever. Like you literally just wanted to make one for yourself. But then these other people were like, hey, that’s awesome, like I want one. And you’re like, oh, uh, okay, yeah, I could do, I could do that. But then I think we’re. You were saying before the interview for the last like three or four years, you’ve had steady like orders with no advertising, you know, and you’ve been staying busy doing that right yeah I mean that that’s impressive.
I mean seriously, like that’s, that’s really impressive, like you’re obviously doing something right uh well, I try, I I definitely try how many, how many tries did it take, like with the, with the neck, when you were building it? I mean, did you like how many necks did you build, or whatever, to kind of get the the right working one?
0:12:51 – Speaker 2
so um the neck is like I’m still, I’m still researching because um still after 10 years no, I hear I get that I, I, uh, when I build something, I will over build it and I’m slowly starting to reduce the weight, because my guitars weigh approximately as much as the wooden ones do, but the biggest weight factors are the tuners and the counterweight in the bottom of the guitar, so that when you hold my guitar in when you’re sitting, it’s gonna. It’s gonna be balanced. It’s. Yeah, it won’t be neck-heavy.
0:13:55 – Speaker 1
Okay, yeah, I hate, it. I hate it when a guitar neck dives.
0:13:58 – Speaker 2
That drives me crazy yeah, so so the tuners weigh around 258 grams, like the ones that I use, and to counterweight that I use 300 grams weights on the bottom of the guitar. So that’s almost 600 grams already, yeah, and the guitar weighs around two kilos. So less than uh, more than a quarter of the weight of the guitar, like almost a third, is just the tuners and the counterweight for the tuners.
0:14:44 – Speaker 1
So with the, with the neck being carbon fiber, do you, are you still using like like rosewood, uh, like inlays and stuff like that? Or is like, are the frets and stuff like edged into like the neck?
0:15:01 – Speaker 2
so, um, I first I laminate two pieces of carbon fiber, so the bottom half, which is the one that is visible, and the upper one, which is a surface to which the head plate and the fretboard are glued to.
And I use Rich Light it’s phenolic resin and paper, so it’s like black paper which is laminated using phenolic resin and they press that under heat and you get really strong boards. I think they mostly use them for skate parks. That’s interesting. For skate parks, that’s interesting. I think Martin uses Rich Light materials now for their thread boards. That’s interesting. It’s becoming more and more used.
0:16:19 – Speaker 1
It’s almost like I don’t know if you call it a man-made material or whatever.
0:16:25 – Speaker 2
It is yeah.
0:16:26 – Speaker 1
Okay, that’s interesting, that’s interesting.
0:16:29 – Speaker 2
What I like about it is that it is, yeah, yeah, it’s not affected by chemicals, and also by water. I mean, I guess it would soak up some of the water, but it’s not as sensitive as oh, so that’s interesting.
0:16:57 – Speaker 1
You’re like sweating and stuff on the fretboard yeah, it wouldn’t get all yeah, it wouldn’t get all, yeah, it wouldn’t.
0:17:07 – Speaker 2
Also won’t affect, it won’t soak up the humidity and it doesn’t move as much as wood does. Because when it dries, I guess it um, you’ll get edges of um if the fretboard doesn’t have binding.
0:17:35 – Speaker 1
Uh, you can, um, you can feel the edges of the threads okay, okay so uh so like like I’m still kind of like baffled by you, like at the age of 18 again. Like working with like a you know, carbon fiber I can imagine it’s a you got. That’s probably a learning curve to that but like dealing with, like you know, how did you even like do the homework on like you know, like how do I build molds for a carbon fiber? And like you know? Then you have to figure out like I don’t know, it’s fascinating how you I guess where there’s a will, there’s a way and people just figure out how to do stuff right but like but like, because, like with me, I’m just like, I don’t even know how I do that.
So it, you know, maybe there’s someone in the audience listening and saying, hey, I want to build whatever, but I don’t know how I go about it. I mean so, like, what did like how’d you, like, start doing homework? Did you start doing homework? And like, how to interact with carbon fiber, I mean, where do you even begin?
0:18:45 – Speaker 2
So you said where there’s a will, there’s a way yeah, which are exact words that I would use. But now that you were talking some more, I recall the words of Einstein, who said I’m not smarter than anybody else, I’m just more persistent with the problem. Anybody else. I’m just more persistent with the problem. So yeah, I just persisted, because when I set my mind on something, I guess I just won’t quit and I’ll just keep on researching.
0:19:16 – Speaker 1
Well, yeah, because I mean we were talking before the interview and so you know we were doing the math. So like you finished your first guitar 10 years ago but you started it seven years before that, so 17 years ago, I mean there probably wasn’t too much google searching on how to like do this. That’s what I mean. Like you were kind of ahead of the curve and you still kind of are in some senses probably so like that’s what I mean. Like how do you?
0:19:50 – Speaker 2
I guess. Uh, oh, I, my father was a pilot and uh, I’m a. Well, I used to fly more. I guess I would still call myself a pilot, so I have a glider pilot’s license that’s cool, that’s cool so uh, modern glider planes are used, uh are made from uh composite materials. So so I guess I kind of joined, joined these two passions also.
0:20:23 – Speaker 1
I see, okay, that makes a little more sense too then, where you kind of got the idea like, hey, I should use this other kind of material or whatever. I could see you getting that now.
0:20:34 – Speaker 2
Then but actually what got me into composites were guitars. It actually wasn’t gliders. But I did start working in companies which used composite materials, and the processes involved were sanding, spraying okay.
0:21:13 – Speaker 1
So you got. You got some kind of like experience messing around with stuff that gave you more of the ideas to work with.
0:21:21 – Speaker 2
Yeah, because uh, for the first seven years when I was making myself a guitar, it was all the afternoons and weekends, right. My jobs allowed me to work on those guitars, and it would often be more than 100 hours a month that I would invest into this, so there was a lot of will there yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.
0:21:51 – Speaker 1
That’s uh like. I guess that kind of brings me into you know, fiber tone guitars. Now you know we were talking uh before because you were saying you know you could, you could make kind of a one guitar month before your latest news. But now you’re, you’re going to be venturing into other types of guitar, other types of carbon fiber guitars. Now, right, you want to talk?
0:22:13 – Speaker 2
a little bit about that yeah, so, uh, for the last what 10 years? Yeah, I’ve, uh, I’ve been focused on making uh, custom carbon fiber archtop guitars and, uh, for the last seven months, I’ve been working towards offering plat optors that are going to be like they. Of course, people will be able to customize them, but most of clients in general, I think, are not so focused into buying something custom made.
0:23:08 – Speaker 1
They just usually want a guitar yeah, I think a lot of people are just kind of like show me a picture of it, you know, and I’ll tell you if I want to buy that one. And I I think a lot of people don’t understand the decisions that go into like choosing every little thing when it comes down to an instrument like that, you know yeah, exactly so.
0:23:28 – Speaker 2
Uh, that’s why I started focusing on that. So in a couple of months, I will have finished the six prototypes and I will remake my website into a webshop, and I still hope to keep the waiting time around three months yeah, that’s still not bad at all a three month time for technically a custom guitar.
0:24:02 – Speaker 1
I mean that’s a bad at all A three-month time for technically a custom guitar.
0:24:07 – Speaker 2
I mean that’s a good turnaround.
0:24:10 – Speaker 1
Yeah, With the flat top. Just in case someone doesn’t know, can you explain what the difference is between an arch top and a flat top?
0:24:22 – Speaker 2
So a flat top has a flat back and top plates and an arch top has arched backs and tops and because of that the neck also meets the body at an angle of around four degrees, and that the sound is also different. Our stops are not synonym for long sustain, and they have a different tone too.
0:25:12 – Speaker 1
Yeah, you were saying you’re more of a fan of the arch top guitars, right.
0:25:16 – Speaker 2
True, yeah, but I would also like to offer my flat tops.
0:25:26 – Speaker 1
Do you also make basses too, or do you just make guitars?
0:25:30 – Speaker 2
Actually, no, I’m not, I don’t plan on offering basses. Okay, in the future I might, I might. I did make one bass guitar for somebody who wanted to have a certain brand of bass and a certain model, but the company wouldn’t offer it in left-hand setup. So he contacted me if I would make him one and, uh, I decided to try it and I did, and he was uh he, he, he wrote me such, an, uh, such a review that I was embarrassed to post it. Yeah. That’s cool.
0:26:29 – Speaker 1
Is it quite different making a neck for a bass guitar than a regular guitar? No, no, okay, I wasn’t sure if the tension of the strings or whatever made any kind of difference or whatever.
0:26:42 – Speaker 2
Actually, yeah, I did use a lot more material than I would for a guitar. Okay, uh, maybe I was uh overconfident when I when I started.
0:27:03 – Speaker 1
That’s cool though.
0:27:10 – Speaker 2
They made at least one bass guitar. I noticed that a lot of how the guitar plays and sounds comes from the way it’s set up. You will notice a quality instrument by pressing with your left hand on the first field and with your little finger on your right hand, and if you use your thumb to check how much relief there is on the 12th fret, you should see the difference between the first and the sixth string. And the first string should have just just a little relief when the sixth has to have more. Okay, yeah, so when you see that in a guitar you know that it’s nicely set up.
0:28:10 – Speaker 1
There you go. Okay, that’s cool, I never knew that.
0:28:16 – Speaker 2
actually, I guess we could talk about construction and the process. Yeah, totally.
0:28:29 – Speaker 1
I mean, I don’t know if you want to give away your secret sauce or not, but if you want to talk about what it’s like building one, I mean absolutely.
0:28:39 – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I guess my guitars are different to other guitars on the market because my molds allow for a lot of customization, while other brands will use molds where the body and neck are already joined. There are some advantages to that. There’s also some disadvantages. I like to be able to play with the body’s thickness. Play with the body’s thickness. So I have my processes of how I, how I can adjust the thickness of the body, and people think that it’s like we just put everything in the mold and vacuum it and cure it at 100, or I don’t know whatever temperature. Yeah, but there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of lamination and handwork involved, so it’s not just pop out of the mold thing, there’s cutting of the plates and like sanding down stuff and all that sanding uh, making grooves for the binding um so that make.
0:30:27 – Speaker 1
That makes sense. That makes sense. Then if you, if you’re doing like a neck through body kind of thing, you can’t mess with the thickness of it, because then that messes with, like the neck itself too, so like you’d have to adjust everything if you adjusted the thickness of the body, of the neck through. Is that? Is that what you’re saying? Um?
0:30:46 – Speaker 2
well, um other companies. I have mold for the sides, for the top and the back and for the neck, so it’s made more in the traditional way. But these molds, like other companies, will have a neck and the back joined together Because of the mold. The mold has to have open angle so that they can write.
0:31:24 – Speaker 1
They can fit right in the guitar.
0:31:26 – Speaker 2
Yeah, the mold yeah so, yeah, because of that shape it’s. Also, it would require extra work to have the back made if they wanted to change the thickness of the guitar. So, yeah, I wasn’t so focused on making just one model or two, because I always wanted to be able to offer a thinner body or thicker one if somebody wanted to have a thicker or thinner guitar so they could play with the thickness of the body, which also affects the, the sound and the whole purpose of the guitar yeah, no, totally.
0:32:16 – Speaker 1
And I guess it makes sense that you did it that way too, because, again, you didn’t, you were, you didn’t open up by doing this because you you had the idea of building like a guitar company. You had people asking, oh hey, could you make me one or make me this? And you were probably thinking, okay, people are asking me to do different things, you know different bodies, or whatever. What’s going to be the easiest way to make this flexible? It sounds like that’s kind of the reason why you approached it that way, I’m assuming.
0:32:43 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s interesting that you say it, because I never thought of that actually, and it’s a really great observation Because mostly people, most companies, will go into okay. So here’s this concept guitar and here’s the mold.
0:33:08 – Speaker 1
Right? No exactly.
0:33:10 – Speaker 2
And advertise it.
0:33:11 – Speaker 1
Yeah, because the guitar company is like, hey, we have an idea of this body style and shape and all that we want people to buy. You know our, our guitar brand x or whatever. But again, you didn’t have that in mind. So, like that’s why it’s interesting, like maybe subconsciously, you approached building them this way because of that. I don’t, I don’t know, but I think that that works out to your advantage in my opinion. Well, I guess it just makes me different from the rest of them. Yeah, no, totally, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and and again it’s, it’s pretty impressive. You can turn around, you know, technically, a custom guitar in, uh, in three months. I mean, that’s.
That’s why I’m kind of a huge fan of G&L Guitars. I don’t know if you’re aware of. They’re not too big in Europe and outside of the US, I think, but G&L Guitars was the last company Leo Fender put together. They started in the 80s or whatever, but they had gone through, obviously, obviously, even up until now still. But the cool thing about gnl is like you can get their, their like usa, you know series or branded guitars.
They don’t sell any of them uh, like in the stores, like they’re literally all made to spec. It’s like. So every any person that wants like a gna kind of like usa guitar, they literally have to kind of like it’s almost like building a custom guitar they have to pick like the neck and you know what body style they want and all that stuff. So they literally are kind of getting a custom guitar without like the actual custom guitar tag on it and you know, and they go for about 1500 bucks and they turn it around in like three months or so. So again, that’s why it’s impressive. Like here and you, you know you got a one man kind of show or you know, maybe you have one or two employees coming up soon or whatever, but like you’re still able to turn these around pretty quickly.
0:35:17 – Speaker 2
So that’s, that’s still pretty impressive uh, well, I, uh, I initially it took me longer, but all the tools that I made, I was able to speed up the process. I’m in some Facebook groups luthier clubs and so on and I saw a post where somebody wrote like making guitar is mostly making tools. And yeah, it’s true there’s a lot of tools that are customized for a certain process so do you still live in?
0:36:16 – Speaker 1
not Yugoslavia, because it’s not called that anymore. Obviously it’s slovakia. Is that where you live now? Is that what it’s called?
0:36:22 – Speaker 2
slovenia slovenia. Okay, I wasn’t sure, okay, so yeah, slovenia is in central europe and its neighboring countries are Italy, austria, hungary and Croatia, so yeah, that’s cool.
0:36:45 – Speaker 1
So then you lived there your whole life.
0:36:48 – Speaker 2
It’s a small country, yeah, and I’ve lived in Germany for half a year, where I was working on glider planes. That’s cool, yeah it wasn’t my thing really, because I do speak some German. But yeah, it was also on the countryside and there were small villages and not a lot of people, so it really wasn’t my.
0:37:22 – Speaker 1
That wasn’t your speed of life.
0:37:25 – Speaker 2
Yeah, not really no.
0:37:28 – Speaker 1
Do you visit Italy much?
0:37:33 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I’ve been there several times to Florence and to for holiday. I’ve been to a really tiny island south of Sicily called Pantelleria and it’s yeah, it’s beautiful there.
0:37:55 – Speaker 1
That’s cool. So do you travel like around, like you said, the neighboring countries do you travel to any of those much at all?
0:38:02 – Speaker 2
uh, stay in slovenia like mostly no, I will go to croatia in the summer. Um, like in may, I’ve been to egypt. That’s cool. Um yeah, and because of covid and regulations at the time, I before that, I’ve been to america three times that’s cool what brought you?
0:38:27 – Speaker 1
over here uh guitars. That’s of course right.
0:38:31 – Speaker 2
Yeah, you know like in the process of making guitars, I met some amazing people with whom I’m still in contact with, even though it’s been four or five years that I haven’t seen them or they had Like just today I spoke with a friend from Pennsylvania and he uses my well his carbon fiber guitar that I made for him. Uh, he calls it a rock.
0:39:01 – Speaker 1
That that’s cool, so yeah, he plays it on his porch uh yeah, that’s cool, that’s really cool, that that’s awesome. Yeah, that must be. That must be kind of cool, like I’m sure, like customers must reach out to you every now and then, or something.
0:39:18 – Speaker 2
Just be like oh thanks, so much, I love this thing, or whatever like that must that must feel like pretty good yeah, it does, and it also feels good when, uh when, people will commission me for a second or maybe even their third guitar.
0:39:34 – Speaker 1
Yeah, no, totally yeah.
0:39:41 – Speaker 2
I mean, sometimes it’s I got to make a living and sometimes it’s hard when, yeah, when you feel like you’re making a guitar for a friend. So, and I love making guitars and, yeah, it’s a nice business what would you say to like?
0:40:00 – Speaker 1
what kind of like encouragement or or info would you give someone that maybe they want to start getting into, you know, building guitars or maybe like pedals or I don’t know whatever like? What would you say to that person if they wanted to get started? They didn’t know, they didn’t know what to do.
0:40:20 – Speaker 2
Well, like you said, where there’s a will, there’s a way. Yeah, and if you love something, I guess you’ll persist. Naturally, it won’t be hard. You’ll lack in motivation at times, but after you get a good night’s rest, if you love something, it won’t. There won’t be anything keeping you away from what you love doing.
0:40:48 – Speaker 1
That’s very true. Rock, honestly. Yeah, like I remember, uh, I interviewed a guy that, uh, he created this company called death by audio and he created these, uh you know, a bunch of like stomp pedals and other various kind of like pedals and I was like, how did you get started? He’s like man. He’s like this was before the internet and he was like I would go to the library and I would read books on all this like electronic stuff. He’s like I had no clue what I was reading. He’s like 80 of what I read I didn’t even understand, but he’s like I had to learn it and I like. So, like you said, there’s going to be this drive in you that won’t let you quit, it won’t let you stop. But I, I think the the most important thing is is, uh, you know, for whoever’s listening, you need to just start, though you know what I’m saying.
Like you need to like put one foot one foot in front of the other and start taking steps.
0:41:49 – Speaker 2
You know yeah, and I guess the the biggest uh point where people quit is when they figure out how much they do not know about something, and when they see how much work is involved in learning an instrument, for example, or making guitars also. But yeah, if you take it step at a time, you you’ll conquer any mountain yeah, I agree with that.
0:42:37 – Speaker 1
Yeah, rock again, I appreciate your time and coming on and and uh letting us uh find out more about uh fiber tone guitars. Is there uh any, anything else, any kind of closing words or anything else you wanted to say to the listeners before we uh head on out here?
0:42:55 – Speaker 2
no, just thank you for your attention and listening to my story absolutely.
0:43:00 – Speaker 1